Problem with creating a new usable tank (SOLVED)

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p.jakub88
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:53 pm

It seems that the dummies "col", "engine", "entries" and "joints" are not linked with anything in 3ds Max in the Matilda II tank un-destroyed model. I mean, they have "children", but no "parents" (beside the whole model) speaking the HDD editor language.

As i wrote before, i have a feeling that i wrongly connected some Matilda II tank parts (i.e. dummies).
Last edited by p.jakub88 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:27 pm

NilsZ wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:39 pm
The col dummy is important for driving. Without it your vehicle could drive through walls, because it has no collisions.

At least it will be driving, lol.

My Matilda II tank version (non fixed one) didn't drive, even when i deleted all volumes collisions except wheels.

This tank is good as a "surprise jumping wonder weapon", lol.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:55 am

I tried to connect and place all Matilda II tank parts in the same way as You did in Your fixed model (see pictures below).

My version only don't have that many collision volumes linked to "col" dummy (just one big collision), "%gun_flare" (but this is not really important) and ";;;smoke**" elements.

All "wheel_**" and all "~020vs0*" are linked with "joint_0*" dummies.

Still the tank is not moving as it should.
Attachments
matilda wheels on fixed model.JPG
matilda wheels on fixed model.JPG (88.84 KiB) Viewed 2430 times
wheels positions on fixed model.JPG
wheels positions on fixed model.JPG (107.19 KiB) Viewed 2430 times
tank parts connections.JPG
tank parts connections.JPG (112.61 KiB) Viewed 2430 times
Last edited by p.jakub88 on Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:10 pm

OK, i figured out that the "joint_y" dummy from the fixed un-destroyed Matilda II tank model version is connected (linked) to the dummy "PantherZ" - the same way as the visual "Tank" was linked in 3ds Max.

However, the the tank still cannot moves normally and now after i start the engine the tank flies backwards at incredible speed... :sad:

In Your fixed Matilda II tank model, the "col" dummy seem to be "connected" with the "engine" dummy, because the yellow lines point to it, when you select the "col" dummy in HDD Editor.

In my original Matilda II tank model, the "col" dummy seem to be "connected" with other point, when you select it in HDD Editor.

See pictures below.

I changed earlier the "wheel_0*" dummies positions in my Matilda II tank version, according to their positions in Your fixed Matilda II tank version.

How did you place the "col" dummy in Your version of the Matilda II tank, to be "connected" in the way that i described above and seen on the picture below?
Attachments
col dummy in the fixed Matilda model.JPG
Notice the yellow lines connected with col dummy.
col dummy in the fixed Matilda model.JPG (81.02 KiB) Viewed 2425 times
col dummy in my Matilda model.JPG
Notice the yellow lines connected with col dummy.
col dummy in my Matilda model.JPG (130.44 KiB) Viewed 2425 times
Last edited by p.jakub88 on Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:03 pm

I copied all the dummies from Your fixed Matilda II tank model into my original one.

First i deleted all tank parts from Your fixed model - except for dummies and i saved the "model" as a *.3ds file.

Then i opened my original tank model and i deleted all the dummies (except for the collision dummies of the destroyed model); i saved the "model" as a *.3ds file.

Next i imported both *.3ds files into single file, i connected the dummies and all other elements accordingly and i saved the model as a *.i3d file.

However, this didn't help. The tank still moves backwards at incredible speed, when i start the engine...

When i imported my Matilda II tank model into HDD Editor, i noticed that the "Tank" element (hull) and linked to it "pasy" (tracks) became huge. After i resized them to the value of 0.085959, i noticed also that the whole element wasn't in right place. I was forced to move and rotate it to fit the "Vez" element (turret). The destroyed tank model version was correctly placed and had normal size, when i imported the whole tank model into HDD editor.

When i looked at Your fixed model after i imported it into HDD editor, i noticed that all tank parts (of the un-destroyed and destroyed tank model version) were in right place and had normal size.

Maybe this is the main reason, why my original Matilda II tank model behaves so strange?

How did you manage to keep all the tank parts together and at normal size?
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:21 pm

I found a nice looking Crusader MK I tank model in *.max format on the www.cadnav.com website. See picture below (model currently in *.obj format, i replaced the original textures on the destroyed tank with single texture taken from H&D Deluxe, because the previous ones were distorted on the tank model).

I converted the *.max model into *.obj format and then to *.3ds format (to be sure that no tank parts are missing). The final step in format conversion would be to export the tank model saved in *.3ds format into *.i3d format, used in H&D Deluxe.

Later i will add original textures and properly UV map them on the tank model saved in *.i3d format (all original textures names were changed when converting from *.obj to *.3ds format, resulting in a "naked model").

Next, i will group (attach feature) many tank parts into few bigger ones (just in the same way as You NilsZ made them in the fixed Matilda II tank model), but trying to keep the UV mapping settings of the tank's textures (the "Match Material IDs to Material" setting need to be selected while attaching one tank part to another).

The last step would be to add all dummies from Your fixed Matilda II tank model and properly place and connect them in 3ds Max.

Hopefully, the result will be a drivable new Crusader MK I tank model or at least a new Crusader MK I tank model with usable cannon...
Attachments
Crusader MK I model.JPG
Work in progress - model still in *.obj format.
Crusader MK I model.JPG (111.92 KiB) Viewed 2400 times
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:03 pm

OK, i managed to add this new Crusader MK I tank model into HDD Editor for testing. thup01

Bad news are, that some of its wheels have no textures attached (even if i did so in 3ds Max) and the tank is moving backwards and sideways when you start its engine. :sad:

Good news are, that the tank cannon is usable, the tank itself is destroyable (has a destroyed version linked), could be boarded up to 4 men and all tank parts are placed correctly and at normal size. smile01

See pictures below.

So, the problem with strange tank movements is not restricted only to the original Matilda II tank model.
Attachments
Crusader MK I left side.JPG
Crusader MK I left side.JPG (141.94 KiB) Viewed 2391 times
Crusader MK I right side.JPG
Crusader MK I right side.JPG (161.25 KiB) Viewed 2391 times
Crusader MK I front.JPG
Crusader MK I front.JPG (145.41 KiB) Viewed 2391 times
Last edited by p.jakub88 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:55 pm

OK, i managed to fix the missing textures on the Crusader MK I tank wheels on both tracks (see pictures below).

However, the tank is still moving backwards when you start its engine...

At least, i found out how to properly attach one tank part to another, in order to keep the UV mapping on textures. thup01
Attachments
Crusader left track.JPG
Crusader MK I tank model in *.i3d format.
Crusader left track.JPG (143.13 KiB) Viewed 2383 times
Crusader right track.JPG
Crusader MK I tank model in *.i3d format.
Crusader right track.JPG (165.87 KiB) Viewed 2383 times
Last edited by p.jakub88 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:01 pm

I learned many new things regarding the 3ds Max textures placing and UV mapping in those days. However, i am still not able to fix the problem with strange movements of the tanks that i added into H&D Deluxe (i don't mean your fixed Matilda II tank model, but others). If i only knew, step by step what you did to fix the original Matilda II tank model. There is not possible that 2 completely different models (Matilda II and Crusader MK I) would have the same problem with movement, UNLESS i did something wrong in 3ds Max while editing them...
Last edited by p.jakub88 on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:48 am

Finally some small progress. thup01

I read again the latest PM that i received from You NilsZ carefully. Now i know, what You mean by those words. :grin:

I converted the stock "za_panth.i3d" model to *.3ds format.

I also converted my "Crusader MK I.i3d" model to *.3ds format.

I opened again the 3ds Max and i merged two *.3ds files into single one.

I re-sized my new tank model to fit the Panther model parts.

Next, i selected each Panther model part (head, Vez, Tank and pasy) and i clicked "Convert to Editable Mesh". Then "Sub-Object - Element" and "By vertex". I deleted all vertices from those mentioned Panther tank parts.

Into "empty spaces", created from removing original Panther model vertices i moved my Crusader MK I tank parts and i attached them to the original Panther parts (without vertices but still on place).

I linked all elements accordingly and i saved the file in *.i3d format.

When i imported this new tank model into HDD Editor and i set all needed AutoCannon settings i noticed a change in the tank movements.

It stills moves strange, however the new tank dummies and destroyed tank model version were not copied directly from the original Panther model.

Due to the tank model conversion process from *.i3d format to *.3ds format and back to the *.i3d format - all tank's textures are missing. However, i know a method to succesfully restore missing textures on a *.3ds model, so when it will be finally exported as a *.i3d model, all textures should be in place.

I will test further.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:30 am

OK, i managed to add an animation to the destroyed version of my Crusader MK I tank model - the animation was taken from the destroyed version of the original Panther tank model (in the same way, that the NilsZ added it to the fixed Matilda II tank destroyed version). thup01

First i merged all parts of the destroyed version of the original Panther tank model into one animated part called "anim_tank7" in 3ds Max.

To achieve this, i chosen the "anim_tank7" element, right clicked "Convert to Editable Mesh" and i attached to it all remaining elements - maintaining the animation.

When i imported my Crusader MK I tank model in *.3ds format into 3ds Max i removed all vertices from the original destroyed version of the Panther model. Then i selected the "anim_tank7" element (without vertices, but still present), i chosen "Attach" and i attached it to my destroyed version of the Crusader MK I tank.

However, i am still not able to fix the strange movements of my Crusader MK I tank model.

Maybe i need to resize my Crusader MK I tank model to fit the original Panther tank model and only then connect all the parts?

I will perform further testing later.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:15 pm

Finally i was able to make the new Crusader MK I tank movable using 3ds Max! thup01

First, i re-sized my Crusader MK I tank model to fit the original Panther tank model (which was bigger).

I deleted all vertices from the original Panther tank model and i attached parts of my new Crusader MK I tank to the Panther parts (without vertices, but still on place).

Now the new tank is finally moving as it should! :cool:

Unfortunately, during the whole process the original Crusader MK I tank model textures are missing (just like in the fixed Matilda II tank model of NilsZ).

I will try to fix this in 3ds Max.

I don't know, if re-sizing of my Crusader MK I tank was necessary.

I will experiment with adding more seats to my Crusader MK I tank (it has currently only 2 seats) plus optimizing the tank's collision volumes.
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Re: Problem with creating a new usable tank (SOLVED)

Unread post by p.jakub88 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:59 pm

OK, i managed to add another 2 seats to the new Crusader MK I tank model and i optimized the tank collision volumes to provide better protection for the crew inside.

However, the most noticeable difference is the original Crusader MK I tank model textures, which i managed to restore using 3ds Max. thup01
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