Sabre Squadron question

[Capt. Stirling]

Was wondering if there's news of a file unpacker for the expansion or if there's any current methods for extracting them.

[-ViTaMiHnM203-]

I... wish...

[Capt. Stirling]

I think we're both in need of a hug on this one.....

Ah well. Goes along with the fact I spent the last two days editing soldier bios and mission descriptions in an effort to make the game more realistic and ended up losing everything in an overwrite

[-ViTaMiHnM203-]

Undo overwrite?

[Capt. Stirling]

I had installed the SS patch and it overwrote the texty files. Can I go back from that?

[-ViTaMiHnM203-]

I guess not... What exactly did you change in their bios to make it more realistic?

[Jason]

To be totally honest, I was actually thinking about this last night as well for some odd reason, the unrealistic factors of the original H&D is what make it so epic. Think of the last mission of H&D1, it has an epic, totally unrealistic objective. Fight your way through an occupied Airfield while it's being attacked from the air and the ground. Wait for a plane to arrive to be flow to safety. Epic and total bullshit but beats the shit out of the realistic missions in Sabre Squadren.

"Realism" is crap and makes games crap, the evidence is clear, what are all games trying to be these days? and how many games are good. Case closed? I don't play tetris because of it's realism. Didn't play Mario Bros because I wanted some realistic plumber adventure game.

Sorry for hijacking your thread for a rant

[Capt. Stirling]

Not a problem at all. Glad this thread might generate something interesting.

Vitamin, Mostly what I did was edit the bios to include date of birth and important military background info pertaining to previous military exploits and mentioning their important attributes rather than marriage status and whether they have a friendly personality. If their attributes do not contain anything special like Harry (Coal) Collins, I say he was wounded in action in the retreat from Greece or Narvik or generally actions prior to 1942. I enjoyed the Original and Devils Bridge characters so the H&D2 bios i modded read like those with more detail.

I've set the first campaign to 1942 so that the paratrooper helmet would have been issued sometime in July. And for fun, I put the mission in Bodo where the original sent you. As for the silent weaponry which I like to use, I've created a fictional unit where they may be deployed to any theatre and recruit from soldiers serving in special forces units like L-Detachment, Special Service Brigades or SOE. That way I have fun saying that paratroop equipment and silenced weapons were being given for field tests to our highly secretive unit before being approved for issue to other special units. Its not historically accurate per se, but at least the change in dates time lines and objectives make certain aspects more interesting and believable for me.

I also wanted to parachute into mainland Italy, so I change the Brest level to the La Spezia dockyard in Northern Italy where 29 U-boat Flotilla was stationed from 41-44. Just stuff like that. I renamed all the missions and arranged times and places. I'm interested in a SS unpacker so I can get in there and edit the vocals for the briefings like I'm doing for the original. I'm doing them in my English accent btw!


I realize that the H&D missions are BS historically and it doesn't bother me a bit. In fact I love the originals missions the most. Among my favorites is the Italy mission whose last level the Devils Bridge box art is taken from. I love missions with mountains.

Btw I studied in an archive with a very well respected and dedicated WWII historian and have read all my life about the World Wars particularly the Italian campaigns. But I can still enjoy the movies and play the games.

Whats interesting is that H&D is more the domain of the Commandos not the SAS. Raiders from No. 12 and 14 Commando operated as Timberforce with the SOE in Norway. No. 2 Commando fought in Yugoslavia on the Dalmatian coast. The Parachute regiment actually was formed from the core of No. 1 and 2 Commando into the 11th SAS btn (not L- Detachment) and parachuted into Italy for operation Colossus Feb 41. So the various locales of the game would support most Commando actions.


The irony is that anything is possible in war. New discoveries in archives and testimonies everyday bring that truth to light.

My apologies for the length of response.

[-ViTaMiHnM203-]

Well the bios already include birthdays, do you mean you made them younger? I think they are supposed to be mostly fresh, and they add the marriage stuff to make it read like a dossier that someone putting a team to gather would be reading, and to make you feel bad when you lose them in the field. lol

For Op. Snowball; if you leave the month of March intact, the C-47 and the helmet make it 1942, sure, but what about the Elco 80'? Now it has to be March 1943. The training should be moved up to July 1942, to account for the M1 Thompson and the No.69s; so now you have more room to pad their bios. You can't really account for that M20 "Super Bazooka" though, sadly.

[Capt. Stirling]

Are you in the UK Vitamin? Curious as the birthdays don't show in my bios with the US localized texty.

The DOB for most of them would have placed them in their late thirties and forties!! Not prime time Commando material.

I had changed the place of training to Scotland in 42 already. Paratrooper helmet wasn't issued till July so I'd had to place the Norway mission near the end of the year to accommodate for the snow in Bodo. The bazooka is a joke and should be the M1A1 variant if that. The Elco 80 was in service in early '42 with the Royal Navy. Although I would have thought an MTB to be more typical of the theatre.

Good to see someone on here knows their stuff 


BTW Jason! If you're looking for a new sound mod, I've got one in the works. I don't have a deadline but so far I've replaced the music to the original H&D for the menus and I'm working to use Devils Bridge and Original sound cues for mission music :)

[-ViTaMiHnM203-]

No, US, EnglishUS Texty.

By my math the DOBs put the youngest guys at 25 in 1940 and the oldest at 35. That is reasonable for men that have already had a career in the military and civilian sector. Especially when looking for men with existing skills to compliment special operations.

What about the iceberg melting and breaking apart? Wouldn't that likely place the operation in the spring? Are you sure the British had the Elco 80', not the 77', in early 1942? I thought the first Elco 80' wasn't launched until about the summer of 1942, and that was for the US before any Lend-Lease. The Elco 80' is a Motor Torpedo Boat by the way.

I think they were only able to get their hands on an M20, and just pretended that was an M1 Bazooka. You might be able to get away with calling it an M9A1 Bazooka, but the HEAT rocket is definitely a 3.5 inch used in the M20, which is what it most looks like.

[Capt. Stirling]

True on your point regarding the bios. I'll admit I exaggerated a little. However, about a third of the troops are born in the 1900's which puts them at the age of most officers and NCO's for commando personnel. I put most of them in my mod averaging at 25 with the youngest 21 and oldest 32 or so.

I understand that the class of boat is Motor Torpedo boat, but the British refer to their Vosper, Thornycroft, White or Power Boat type boats with the MTB abbreviation and anyone who studies WWII knows that. :P  And I made the mistake of the 77 not the 80 being sent to the RN that early but they were shipped to them. The first 80's were completed in June 1942. Not claiming to be a maritime expert btw.

But since we're splitting hair fibers, the Elco 80 in the (ETO) only served in the English Channel and the Med so the mere fact that it would be sent to Norway is incorrect and therefore out of ones hands regarding the extent of accuracy that can be achieved. Same goes for what the creators did with the bazooka. Funny that it was done right in the original!

As for icebergs thawing in early March I doubt much thought was originally given to that detail regarding the time-frame and was probably there for effect.

Mostly what I'm after is adding both a little story depth and correction to atrocious mistakes like Blade Dancer being set in May 1944.

[-ViTaMiHnM203-]

The irony is that anything is possible in war.

The boat in Op. Snowball is undoubtedly an Elco 80'. As for it not operating in Norway, this is a special operation and would not be on the books. The date on the recon photo is 4 August, 1942. It accounts for the Elco 80', the Me262 airframes, the MG42s all over the place and the Arctic Para helmet. Also since it is the middle of the summer that would be a more plausible explanation for the iceberg instability, rather than the first month of spring, just after the winter. It seems someone wanted to have Snowball take place during Operation Claymore.

As for the "splitting hairs" comment; I'm not sure I understand, I thought you were editing to make "improvements to realism," and you are doing that with small details. If you think that the Elco 80' being in a map that the texty claims is taking place in 1941, is unimportant, then why bother with the Para helmet? The helmet, I think is of even less importance, than that of the giant glaring anachronism that is the Elco 80' in a perceived 1941 setting.

That idiom also implies that we are having a petty quibble. Do details bother you? I am not trying to tell you what to do, I am just contributing information for clarity... I was just discussing.

[Capt. Stirling]

You misunderstood. It is important that the mission take place in mid-late 1942 for several reasons. Didn't read my post where I placed the training in Scotland 1942? I was stating that there are certain limitations regarding accuracy that cannot be changed unless you mod the 80 to a 77 or a British MTB or the M9/M20 to an M1. So in other words there are some things that must be accepted. Since the Elco operating in Norway would be "off the books" I suspect you don't mind overlooking particular inaccuracies yourself. Same goes for the chinstrap on the arctic para helmet which is wrong.
The Me 262 airframe would have been around in 1941 since that's when the first test flights were conducted. Not to mention that the design itself had change minimally since its first drafts in 1939. The Claymore setting was obvious since they put the mission on the same date as the real op.

Nice catch on the recon photo. I've had H&D2 since '03 and I never noticed that inconsistency with the game's time-line in 1941. I'll have to pay attention to that next time!

I placed the mission in Sept 1942 to account for setting, equipment (including the Elco) and time frame for the next mission taking place in Libya in Nov 1942 which can't be stretched to far forward or then we leave Libya in early February  43. I actually connected Schumann to the Norway raid so there's somewhat of a story.

I love detail whether you believe that or not. I am surprised, given my fourth post, that you would question that. My splitting hairs comment was poking fun at our demands on such a game. I suppose it had the adverse effect of lightening the situation. But to hell with it, please continue to discuss. I respect your intelligence as I would hope you respect mine.

[-ViTaMiHnM203-]

Inaccuracies that are not possible, I don't like. The chance of a team using the Elco 80' and fielding it in Norway, while unlikely, for the sake of the game, can be imagined. As long as this is not before the possible existence of the Elco 80'. I don't go the commando route in my mind, it is SOE for me. I like the idea of having the newest equipment available, so having the Elco 80' is not an uncomfortable stretch.

For the Me262, the airframe in Op.Snowball is a version 3 I believe; the version 1 had no jet engines on the frame, and the version 2 retained the nose mounted propeller. The first flight of the version 3, I believe was in July 42, and they had trouble with the airframe and landing gear. Leaving the setting at August 1942, the way I believe it was designed to be, before a Claymore fanboy got at the texty, is perfect. I already have the beginning Arctic 1 intro sound wav fixed to just have him say 1942, and the recon photo with the date seals the deal.

For the helmets, yeah, I don't use them, because of the chin strap. I don't believe anyone in my team actually uses them anymore either. We use the cap comforter mostly, except on the missions where the snow suit is needed, and there nothing but the built in "hoodcap." Keeps you a bit lighter and makes you worry about getting clipped in the head. Terrible they didn't fix it before they shipped the game, as it looks great. The flight crew in the C-47 actually wears it as well, you just can't see it without a fix.

I did read your post, but I was getting from it that you like the things you care about and not the rest. Anytime I hear anything like that, you know expressing a dissatisfaction with detail or talking about detail, I wonder where they are going with it.