Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

This is the place to talk about everything and anything.
User avatar
Capt. Stirling
Lieutenant
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:56 pm

Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Capt. Stirling » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:32 am

As the title would suggest, I read on a Mafia II forum that the engine supports modding. Could it be possible that a team could produce a decent substitute Hidden and Dangerous 3 release using this technology? I realize its a long shot but I would venture to say its not as far off as perhaps the old Illusion crew regrouping in Brno for a third go at our beloved series...

Thoughts?
They Dared and Won..... And They Were Hidden and Dangerous.
1941-1945

User avatar
JonnySniper
Lieutenant
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:33 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by JonnySniper » Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:15 pm

if HD3 will be released,then its not so good like the old title.
look at the ww2 scene in mafia2.
if something comes then it will be just as i think.
www.object-arts.de.tl
Idee := Brain.Activate(self);

User avatar
Capt. Stirling
Lieutenant
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:56 pm

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Capt. Stirling » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:48 am

I'm not so sure that would be horrible. It would have to include first person action though! The standard would be maintained I think if they don't alter the formula for loadout, team selection, sandbox style play and most importantly as Jason has often pointed out, large atmosphere.
They Dared and Won..... And They Were Hidden and Dangerous.
1941-1945

User avatar
Jason
Administrator
Posts: 1895
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:26 pm
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Jason » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:30 pm

You can edit LUA scripts for Mafia 2 but there is no SDK. I'm not sure if there are any fan made tools yet, Mafia 2 was a huge disappointment to a lot of people. The community are largely negative and can't get over the missing parts of the game, so I doubt anything will come out of that.

There is nothing much to the Mafia 2 engine, you'd be better off using UDK.
A new day, a new beginning

Fixing H&D2 Multiplayer tutorial

User avatar
Capt. Stirling
Lieutenant
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:56 pm

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Capt. Stirling » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:31 pm

This is true. Aside from lack of mod support, was Mafia II a disappointment altogether? I hope this doesn't mean that H&D3 hopes are completely squashed.

And your're right Johnny. I've just watched a vid of the WWII Mafia level and I think it works for Mafia but not for H&D3. I think H&D3 should have proprietary software so we could have dynamic lighting and skylines wit top notch physics and sandbox style play that the original is known for.

Jason, what was H&D2's development budget?
They Dared and Won..... And They Were Hidden and Dangerous.
1941-1945

User avatar
Jason
Administrator
Posts: 1895
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:26 pm
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Jason » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:52 am

Mafia 2 was disappointing and was clearly missing critical game play elements they didn't finished or removed to suit the "GTA gamer". H&D3 was not in development a few years back when Illusion Softworks were still around, so the chances of something coming along in the next year are slim. They might try to flog the Mafia 3 title first.

Not sure what H&D2's development budget was but it started in 1999/2000 and of course was released in October 2003. So that's a bit longer than one would hope to spend on a game but they did go through 2 engines. It's definitely better than how Mafia 2 turned out :lol:

H&D is not a console game IMO, It just would not work well. As you said in another post console sales are higher these days but don't forget about PC downloads, Steam etc. I've not seen actual sales numbers from steam. I wish they would release H&D2 on steam, that would give it a new lease on life I reckon!
A new day, a new beginning

Fixing H&D2 Multiplayer tutorial

User avatar
Capt. Stirling
Lieutenant
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:56 pm

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Capt. Stirling » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:34 pm

Too right Jason. I read about the problems encountered with Mafia II's development. Was surprised to learn H&D2 also had engine issues. I thought they used LS3D from the start.

Agreed on H&D being suited for only PC. I really don't think the H&D series marketed in the States well. Its probably a hit in England and Czech but over here, I can barely find one person who's heard of it much less played it. I think Steam for H&D would be a great marketing tool since lowering the price has obviously sparked a resurgence of interest.

So 2k Czech owns the right to the series? Maybe the Alexander Sila and company can take a shot at the third installment through Vatra grin01
They Dared and Won..... And They Were Hidden and Dangerous.
1941-1945

User avatar
-ViTaMiHnM203-
SAS Soldier
Posts: 1347
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 7:52 am
Location: Classified
Contact:

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by -ViTaMiHnM203- » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:31 pm

H&D was great on the Dreamcast, I liked the controls better on the Dreamcast than the PC.

H&D2 on the other hand I wouldn't want to play on a console. As for that evil spoken of, sure it will give popularity to the series, but more and more popularity will only be bad for this series, H&D will go the way of CoD.
Eight, 8, the burning eight; between Sunday and Monday exists a day so great, it will devastate. :twisted:

User avatar
Capt. Stirling
Lieutenant
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:56 pm

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Capt. Stirling » Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:24 am

Very true. Sadly I don't think games have a choice in todays market to only ship for PC (setting aside some obscure pieces).

Complexity in console games does exist (Fallout 3, OFP Dragon Rising, etc). But I agree trying t port H&D2 would have been catastrophic. I can imagine how the original was easy on Dreamcast.

I happen to think that H&D 3 could be successful if they design for PC first and keep to all the original concepts of a tactical shooter and then just eliminate or "dumb it down" into a slightly more lean and stream lined FPS. It would suit console players whose limited controller apparatus and desire for fast paced mindless shooting could enjoy a slightly more in depth FPS while the PC gamers get all the joy of the ultimate H&D experience.

Thoughts?
They Dared and Won..... And They Were Hidden and Dangerous.
1941-1945

User avatar
Jason
Administrator
Posts: 1895
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:26 pm
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Jason » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:57 pm

Capt. Stirling wrote:So 2k Czech owns the right to the series? Maybe the Alexander Sila and company can take a shot at the third installment through Vatra grin01
Illusion Softworks use to own the rights to all their games but they were bought out by 2k Games. Therefore I am guessing all the IP goes to them, so it's 2k Games... game. Take 2 didn't view H&D2 as a successful game. They don't really do tactical strategy games any more. It'd be good if someone else took on the title. Like Lars suggested Lonely Cat Games.

Alexander Sila obviously made H&D2 Sabre Squadren into a good game. But the company he is with now does console games so... yeah, no luck there.

I'd like to see a budget clone or fan made version of H&D next. It actually seems the most realistic to happen at this stage :sad:
Capt. Stirling wrote:I happen to think that H&D 3 could be successful if they design for PC first and keep to all the original concepts of a tactical shooter and then just eliminate or "dumb it down" into a slightly more lean and stream lined FPS.
Or they could hire another company to re-create it but that would be a big ask these days. I'd like to be able to play a game and not have a huge red flashing symbol showing me where to place dynamite... if I get it wrong it's my fault. I don't need my hand being held!
Last edited by Jason on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A new day, a new beginning

Fixing H&D2 Multiplayer tutorial

User avatar
Capt. Stirling
Lieutenant
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:56 pm

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Capt. Stirling » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:23 pm

I agree, I loved how you had the option to pick the spot for explosives in the first one nad the length of time to set the fuse.

I was stating that in the event that a company were to take on the third installment, that the gameplay elements be defined by the hardcore tactical shooter open world way we're used to on PC. And for all the moron console kiddies, a dumbed version that cuts about half the more complex aspects puts the experience on a more straight forward coarse to appeal to the large markets. 

As for H&D3 I realize that the original crew gave up on it and there probably won't be a major third installment. But! I would love to see a budget fan made H&D3. I thin that would achieve the atmosphere and gameplay aspects we all crave from the first.

Any thoughts on a developer to take the rights and try? Bethesda softworks might do it justice perhaps??
They Dared and Won..... And They Were Hidden and Dangerous.
1941-1945

User avatar
Grimples
Major
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:55 am
Location: Geordieland

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Grimples » Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:40 pm

Hi Capt. Sterling

PC games will come to an end soon, there is not enough money to be made. Devs are not gonna spend months & months creating a PC version of a game for a few 1000 PC hard core fans. I very much doubt we will ever see a tactical HnD3, look at the mess the (new) Devs made of Mafia2. This is just my personal opinoin mindya!

User avatar
Capt. Stirling
Lieutenant
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:56 pm

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Capt. Stirling » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:56 am

Hey Grimples,

I think your opinion is well founded from from a retail point of view. Just look at the incredibly small section in game stores for PC games. This thread http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/10005 ... ole-losingis interesting as discusses the power of Steam/Valve online purchases for PC titles. I strongly dislike the lack of content in terms of having a physical CD and box but I would imagine that option might still be available in collector edition style releases.

I also found the argument about the PC performance market disappearing as a result of no PC games. That I would image would not be possible considering the other uses in terms of video/audio editing and the rise of home studios. I realize gamin is the most intensive processing a comp can do but I would imagine LCD monitors and other performance technologies would survive. The prices may go up to compensate for the lack of the gaming market though. Ironically, its the technological curve required to keep an updated PC that is allowing the console market to swarm. Console games are released by standardized generations and its simpler to just spend a few hundred bucks on a new system that will play about 5-6 years worth of games. 

I agree that unless a fan made or small firm takes on the H&D3, we shall never see it (at least done correctly).
They Dared and Won..... And They Were Hidden and Dangerous.
1941-1945

Heatseeker
Corporal
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:02 pm

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by Heatseeker » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:08 pm

Its true that Mafia 2 was the #1 disapointment of the year, it was clearly rushed, consolised, "gta'ed" and ultimately thrown out the door but i wouldnt blame 2k czech for all that.. the game had potential and was very ambitious, if you played it you know how it could have been something special.. but ended up far from it.

I read that 2k Czech had major dificulties during development but its obvious that 2k's involvement and influence contributed largely to Mafia 2's failure. This is the main problem with todays gaming scene, publishers have all the influence and control over development, instead of letting the real "artists" do their thing.

I believe the Mafia 2 engine would have been the perfect platform for a new H&D game, since its capable of drawing a huge city with beautyfull graphics, draw distance at a good frame rate, it also had good vehicle physics, weather effects, etc but not for a mod..

User avatar
-ViTaMiHnM203-
SAS Soldier
Posts: 1347
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 7:52 am
Location: Classified
Contact:

Re: Mafia II engine platform for H&D3 mod?

Unread post by -ViTaMiHnM203- » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:26 pm

Hidden and Dangerous 2 was rushed out the door as well; I think it is their calling card with sequels. Hidden and Dangerous 2 is still my favorite game. thup01
Eight, 8, the burning eight; between Sunday and Monday exists a day so great, it will devastate. :twisted:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests